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General » Should we nationalize US oil?
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AndrewWilkowFan 1 year, 6 months ago |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_en_mo/eu_oliver_stone_bp_1 |
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AndrewWilkowFan 1 year, 6 months ago |
Ok folks, here's one to start with and let's see where this goes. Personally, I think nationalizing anything makes it more inefficient and doesn't make it any safer. I would compare the nationalization of Venezuela's oil as an example. What are your views and please provide evidence/sources/citations to back it up. I personally think nationalization would make oil political, not cheaper or safer. |
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crossofcrimson 1 year, 6 months ago |
When we talk about things like this, I think, we can approach it from two distinct angles. The first, and most obvious, is economic. Of course, there's an abundance of literature regarding this aspect (on both sides). I think some of my favorite refutations of labor-oriented economics still comes from Ludwig von Mises. In particular, some chapters in the second part of "Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis" still stand out in my mind. Some of my favorites - <http://mises.org/books/socialism/part2_ch6.aspx> - <http://mises.org/books/socialism/part2_ch7.aspx> - <http://mises.org/books/socialism/part2_ch8.aspx> - <http://mises.org/books/socialism/part2_ch11.aspx>. The last chapter linked here begins to touch on some other great points other economists have brought to the table. There is some great groundwork provided by Hayek on trying to erect command and control economic structures (<http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/Economics/HayekUseOfKnowledge.html>). I also particularly enjoy some of the points brought up by a much lesser-known economist, Pete Boettke (http://www.coordinationproblem.org), who wrote an excellent article in the 90's about how the creative destruction or friction in markets is key to productive progress and tragically offset by socialist schemes (I have the direct link to the original article but for some reason the server seems to be down currently - <http://economics.gmu.edu/pboettke/pubs/articles/boettke-cr.pdf>). While I think these economic arguments are not only compelling but correct, I think the utilitarian arguments have to be tempered with ethical arguments. Economics can be a tricky subject. And in particular, it can be easy for a person without some explicit insight to be carried away with the positivist presentation of economics as a hard science...particularly in light of the neo-classical schools of economics that are so prevalent today. While there is plenty of rhetorical ammo for free-marketeers, I think most people of that mindset wouldn't feel comfortable with their property rights hinging on the public's perception or understanding of demand functions of complex economical models. If we don't take basic fundamental liberty into account, then I think we've lost from the start. If we could statistically prove that locking all males between the ages of 20 and 25 in cages would vastly improve our GDP, I would hope that our argument would not simply end there. There's a much larger ethical question we should be asking about personal sovereignty and private ownership here. The economic arguments are very powerful. But is that the only source of your disagreement? If nationalizing industry proved to be more publically palatable (maybe through some obscure social utility calculation) would you still be OK with the public seizure of private property? I would hope that most of us wouldn't be. For people who are interested in the more philosophical side of the argument, Rothbard has written several tomes with great explanations. A couple of my favorites: <http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp> - <http://mises.org/rothbard/Ethics/Ethics.asp> |
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Heidi 1 year, 6 months ago |
hell no |
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boneman 1 year, 6 months ago |
absolutely not |
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marnesdad 1 year, 6 months ago |
AW, there's no national benefit -- safety, security, regulation -- that could make this the 'right' thing to do... |
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crossofcrimson 1 year, 6 months ago |
Oh - what I meant to say was "Yes, nationalize it all." |
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marnesdad 1 year, 6 months ago |
LOL... so, you've answered your own ethical questions to your satisfaction, then? |
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crossofcrimson 1 year, 6 months ago |
Yes, basically. Liberty is over-rated. Government is to be trusted. Also, I love Muslims and gays. |
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marnesdad 1 year, 6 months ago |
Queer... |
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marnesdad 1 year, 6 months ago |
..but doesn't all this make you a LIE-BER-AL? |
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crossofcrimson 1 year, 6 months ago |
Well, yeah. But let's face it...the liberal ideology is the correct one. |
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marnesdad 1 year, 6 months ago |
... if you consider the competition. Sure. |
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